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Liz Ann Sonders: Stocks Look Weaker Under the Surface

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What You Need to Know

  • Surging mega-cap stocks are masking the actual performance of most companies, the Schwab chief investment strategist says.
  • Consumers' psychological reactions to certain data are driving inflation.
  • Avoid concentration risk in portfolios, Sonders says.

A look beneath the surface of U.S. financial markets and the economy shows a more complex and often weaker picture than broader performance and data points suggest, according to Liz Ann Sonders, chief investment strategist at Charles Schwab.

Average stock performance is notably more tepid than stock indexes indicate, Sonders noted in an interview with ThinkAdvisor on Monday.

The moves that financial advisors suggest for clients given this and various divergent trends in the economy will depend on the investor’s particular circumstances, she said.

At the beginning of the year, Sonders noted, one strategist could have said, “‘I’m going to tell you, I think the market’s going to rip higher in the first half of the year.’ And another strategist would say, ‘I think we’re going to see a tremendous amount of weakness among stocks this year.’ And both of those prognostications would be accurate based on where we are now.”

(Schwab doesn’t issue year-end price targets, she said, calling it “a ridiculous exercise.”)

“What you see on the surface, if you just look at the S&P index at the index level or the Nasdaq at the index level, it looks like the market has just been on fire. And kind of a nothing-to-see-here backdrop,” she said.

But a look under the surface tells a different story, she added.

While the Nasdaq has seen a 7% maximum drawdown from its year-to-date high, the average stock in that index has experienced a 37% drawdown, Sonders noted.

“Wow. So that’s a heck of a lot of churn and weakness and rotation going on under the surface that you wouldn’t pick up if you were solely looking at index level changes because these are cap weighted indexes, whether it’s the S&P or the Nasdaq,” she said.

In their recent midyear outlook for stocks and the economy, Sonders and Schwab senior investment strategist Kevin Gordon also noted differences in the maximum drawdowns from year-to-date highs in other stock indexes, including 5% for the S&P 500 compared with 15% for its average stock, and a 9% drawdown for the Russell 2000 versus 28% for the average stock.

But Why?

“If you’ve got the largest cap names driving performance, then it keeps the indexes afloat. But the real story is, I think, under the surface, and I think the story of what the rest of the market is doing is maybe more reflective of all these uncertainties that we’re all very familiar with —  uncertainty about the economy, uncertainty about the labor market, what’s the Fed going to do, and … geopolitics, the elections,” said Sonders.

“So when people say, ‘How can the market be doing so well in the face of all this?’ I say, ‘Well, it depends on how you define the market. Cap-weighted indexes are doing well because of the dominance of a small handful of names,” she said.

Consumption is the economy’s biggest driver, “and there are cracks in the veneer of strong consumption,” said Sonders. She anticipates the cracking will continue “because the excess savings story has dwindled. It’s hard to judge exactly what, if anything, is left.”

It’s clear that excess savings from pandemic stimulus is gone on the low end of the income spectrum, while some research suggests savings remain for higher income consumers, she said. That’s why defaults and serious delinquencies are picking up and appear more concentrated in subprime areas, whether auto loans or credit cards, Sonders noted.

She also noted bifurcations in consumer sentiment, with confidence much weaker among lower income earners.

Jobs Data Sparks Psychological Effects

The labor market is the most important factor now both for the economy and as a trigger for change in Federal Reserve policy, according to Sonders. 

Sonders expects a weakening labor market, with various ripple effects.

The Fed wants “to kind of crush job openings without crushing jobs,” she said. ”And job openings have come down quite significantly. But we are also in a trending higher unemployment rate.”

The unemployment rate affects average individuals “because it’s concrete, they can grasp it. And that tends to have psychological impacts, not just actual impacts,” the chief investment strategist said.

Sonders also noted differences between the payroll survey, which measures jobs at businesses, and the household survey, which generates the unemployment rate. The estimates from the two surveys differ due to distinct survey methods and definitions.

While the payroll survey has recently shown employment growth in several industries, the unemployment rate from the household survey most recently changed little from the previous month, at roughly 4%, and was higher year over year.

“The average person knows and sees, ‘Oh no, the unemployment rate’s going higher.’ That leads to less confidence about keeping a job, finding a job if you don’t have it. That feeds into desire to consume,” said Sonders.

When it comes to inflation, the non-discretionary or “needs” Consumer Price Index components are experiencing a 6% inflation rate, while the discretionary or “wants” components are flat and slightly into deflation territory, she said.

“So that is an actual problem, but it’s a psychological problem too because it’s, ‘Geez, you know, the stuff I have to spend money on, my auto insurance, health care costs, that’s the stuff that’s gone up a lot and is not coming down quickly.’”

Cash vs. Debt

These economic trends have different meanings for different companies, Sonders noted, citing interest rate sensitivity as an example.

Many large tech companies are huge cash-generating businesses, which is one reason why mega-cap stocks have done well, Sonders noted. As a result, they don’t have much debt and many actually earn more interest on their cash than they pay on their debt.

“You go down the cap spectrum, you go into the so-called zombie companies, the companies that don’t have enough cash flow to pay the interest on their debt or the non-profitable companies,” and profitable Russell 2000 stocks are outperforming non-profitable stocks by roughly 18 percentage points year to date, she said. “I believe that might be an all-time record.”

Keeping Investors on Track

How do these economic and market trends affect the guidance that financial advisors might offer?

“It depends obviously on who the investor is. Are they a stock picking investor? Are they a fund investor? If they’re a fund investor, are they taking a passive approach in index funds or ETFs or are they taking an active approach, even if it’s via funds?

“So there’s no one cookie-cutter answer, but in general, what we have said is there are ways via discipline to keep or at least prevent your portfolio from developing the concentration risk that has developed in the indexes.” 

That means taking steps like periodic rebalancing and diversification.

“Nobody wants to talk about that stuff. No one’s going to have you on financial television and want you to talk about periodic rebalancing and diversification across and within asset classes,” said Sonders. “It’s the disciplines that keep investors on track.”

While many investors will base their rebalancing on the calendar, they can do portfolio-based rebalancing, “meaning let your portfolio tell you when it’s time” to trim back outsize gains or to add to certain holdings, she said.

Schwab also has focused on factor- or characteristic-based investing rather than market sectors or segments, with an emphasis on high-quality companies, Sonders noted.

She suggested screening for companies that won’t be hampered by higher-for-longer interest rates, and for those with strong free cash flow, high return on equity, as well as high-quality, profitable, reasonably valued businesses. This can keep investors in leading names “without having to make a monolithic sector call or two,” because even in the tech sector, “not everything’s been a winner there,” Sonders added.

High quality has been the dominant and consistent theme in this environment, she noted. That may seem obvious, “but there are times where going down the quality spectrum” into non-profitable companies with weaker balance sheets can benefit in a big economic upswing.

Stock valuations are “pretty rich” now and maintaining an upward trajectory in earnings estimates is key to supporting those valuations, according to Sonders. Disinflation is important too, even if inflation metrics don’t reach the Fed’s target, she added.

The ‘Great Moderation’ Is Over

Sonders believes the economy and markets are making a transition from the “great moderation” era that stretched from roughly the mid-1990s to 2022, to a more volatile “temperamental” era, similar to the mid-1960s to mid-1990s, with greater inflation swings, more recessions and more geopolitical uncertainty, as well as sharper growth phases.

This new era also may mean that stock and bond prices will move in the same direction, Sonders noted. While that could mean losing the portfolio diversification benefit, there are many strategies and opportunities for such an environment.

These could include more active management on the fixed income side and a realization that investors need to lock in yields and hold the duration as opposed to trying to trade. “So it’s not better or worse, it’s just different,” said Sonders, noting that individual investors now also have greater access to alternative assets to help them diversify beyond stocks and bonds.

For advisors guiding clients, the recommendations depend on the individual investor, she noted.

“At Schwab we have $9.2 trillion of client assets. Even if I had a little birdie from the future land on my shoulder and say, ‘I’m going to give you a 99% conviction call on what the market’s going to do, the stock market, the bond market.’ But I was sitting across from two different investors,” one in their 20s, employed and a multimillionaire, the other in their 70s, retired, with a nest egg they can’t afford to lose, “what I would tell those two investors is entirely different.”

“So,” Sonders continued, “I always say shame on anyone who actually gives a cookie-cutter answer to that.”


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