The Do's and Don'ts of Firing a Friend

Q&A June 20, 2023 at 02:25 PM
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You've launched an RIA with another advisor who's a personal friend. You're the CEO. For about two years, the partnership goes swimmingly.

But in the third year, your friend comes down with "the disease of complacency," as described by Andrew Marsh, executive in residence of Dynasty Financial Partners, in an interview with ThinkAdvisor.

That's when you need to take off your "friend hat" and don your "boss hat" to "have an honest conversation about expectations and accountability," Marsh says.

"Complacency leads to entitlement," he argues.

As executive in residence since April of this year, Marsh coaches Dynasty's network of independent RIAs as part of the firm's "Advisor to CEO" program.

He co-founded and, for 17 years, was president and CEO of Richardson Wealth (formerly Richardson GMP), one of the top independent wealth management firms in Canada.

Under his leadership, the company grew to managing more than $30 billion in assets in 15 years before it went public in 2020.

In the interview, Marsh discusses the signs of advisor complacency and when to wear those "friend" and "boss" hats.

He also explains how to inspire a partner friend to get their act together again, and, in the absence of such pivot, the do's and don'ts of firing them.

Above all, Marsh, a member of the Centre of Fiduciary Excellence and the Aspen Global Leadership Network, stresses the need to be "absolutely clear on expectations and accountability" to try to prevent and deal with a partner's detachment or diminished efforts.

ThinkAdvisor recently interviewed Marsh, who was speaking by phone from his Toronto base.

Marsh's advice to exhausted, overextended RIAs is to "pick a lane": the middle-of-the-road status quo lane, CEO lane or rainmaker-advisor lane.

"These are things about a maturing business that you have to figure out," he says.

Here are highlights of our conversation:

THINKADVISOR: Sometimes it's necessary to fire a friend whom you've gone into business with. The RIA space is no exception. How does the CEO handle that?

ANDREW MARSH: When you start a firm together, it's very collegial. You're, kind of, a band of partners that have this badge of honor of taking a big risk together and making the jump.

But then the issue may become: How do you manage someone that isn't performing at the level that you expected or that you need from them?

When does this show up?

I would think that in the first year or two of an RIA firm, it's all hands on deck, and everyone is excited.

Probably in the third year, the rubber hits the road in terms of workload, and the reality of running your own business and how close that was to your expectations [hits].

From what I've seen so far in the RIA world, typically, it's that three-year mark, where there's a steady [level] of work being done.

That's when people's work ethic and approach to the business start to become evident — and maybe frustrating.

What would make it frustrating?

Some people get complacent. They get established and then immediately go into a comfort zone. Complacency leads to entitlement. They're starting to feel that they're safe from expectations.

This is very frustrating to the other [potential] partners if they're still committed to working hard and growing and doing everything to see the firm succeed.

How does the CEO deal with this issue when the complacent person is their friend?

By taking a step back from the personal relationship and clarifying expectations and accountability of each other as partners or as manager and employee.

What's been your own experience with the company you owned?

At first, I thought that a [complacent] partner would figure it out for themselves because I knew they were committed and loyal.

But I learned that you have to work twice as hard to clarify expectations with a friend than with an employee who's not a friend to make sure you're on the same page in terms of what you need from each other.

What are the signs of complacency?

It's in the person's overall work-effort level, and [manifests itself in] many different ways.

Even in the new hybrid Zoom/[in the office] world, the quality of work and overall result can reflect the disease of complacency.

How does it show up when people are required to be physically in the office?

They spend a lot of time outside the office. Maybe the person is taking [too much] vacation time or playing golf.

When everybody else is in the office working away, this person isn't putting in the same kind of time. That's an opportunity to clarify expectations.

But if they're out meeting clients and prospects, then that has to be known by everyone who might be looking sideways at them.

What things are less noticeable?

How engaged they are in group meetings.

Sometimes it's in their attitude or a comment they make that sends a message that they're not as engaged and feel safe from expectations.

If it's a producing partner, results are important. So if the pace of growth of their business or revenue levels aren't keeping up with the growth of others, that's another sign.

What if they just don't have the capabilities or talent to handle responsibilities in a firm that's growing larger and larger?

At my former firm, we used [an analogy] with sandboxes. As everybody's sandbox got bigger, how many people could grow into their new sandbox, and how many were stuck in their smaller sandbox?

You've got to make an assessment of people to see how well they're evolving as the business grows. Some people can't [evolve]. This is where having very open and direct communications to clarify accountability and expectations come in.

You point out to people those areas that show they're not able or willing to expand their sandbox.

If they're not shaping up, do you warn them that if they don't, they'll have to leave the firm?

Yes. I've had to do that two or three times. My approach was to have that honest conversation and ask them to acknowledge that my job wasn't to be their friend [concerning this]: I took off my friend hat and put on my boss hat.

I told them that they were the ones that were putting me in this position, not the other way around. That worked.

People really opened their eyes. Once they realize that they're doing something to their friend that isn't fair, they either snap out of it and start to turn it around or else they start a conversation about moving on.

You mean they themselves start that conversation — not you?

Yes. It happened to me. I challenged someone on their effort level: They were very complacent. They admitted that they weren't into [the business] as they used to be.

As friends, that created a great way to communicate about what alternative roles might be or what an exit from the firm might be.

But most of the time if you [splash] cold water on their face and help them realize that they can't float or coast the way they thought they could, they start to turn it around.

All of it begins with being absolutely clear on accountability and expectations.

You just talked about switching from a friend hat to a boss hat. That can be tricky. Right?

You have to wear both hats because as their friend, you want them to be happy. As their boss, the CEO of the firm, you want to make sure you're not creating a bigger problem down the road and that you're doing right by your firm.

As a friend, you've got to make sure you're doing right by the other person.

These are not easy roads to walk.

What happens if you find you've got to fire your partner friend? How do you do it?

Do not delegate this — do it yourself. Every time I had to let someone go that was either someone I cared about because of their loyalty and their tenure with the firm or because we were friends, delegating it to someone in [human resources] or some other person didn't seem right.

What does the CEO do, specifically?

Step into a room and close the door. You don't make small talk; you get right to business.

Every time I've done it, it's never been a surprise. The person says, "I knew this was coming, but I didn't want to be the one that said it."

So typically, they knew they were underperforming or that they were better off elsewhere. It was never a surprise because we had a very open dialogue about expectations and accountability.

When you're that clear and there's no wiggle room, they know that they're not meeting those expectations.

Before taking the step of firing, to what extent does the CEO show displeasure at the other person's underperformance? Can arguments break out?

I certainly had some testy discussions where both sides were expressing different points of view, but there were no arguments.

Since I was the boss, I had to listen to some excuses, but by being prepared for them, you're managing how the conversation goes.

It doesn't have to be a negative confrontation.

How often do you need to repeat expectations?

I recommend a habit of at least an annual performance review with everybody. For people you're more worried about, it might be better to have a quarterly check-in.

Reviews need to be formal, purposeful and structured, not a by-the-seat-of-your-pants [chat] where you sit down and shoot the breeze. You've got to be very, very prepared and purposeful at these meetings.

What if you have a small two-person shop? Do the reviews still need to be structured?

Yes, that has to happen. If it's two people, it's a more like marriage counseling, where there are regular check-ins on how things are going.

If you don't do it, then these things can fester and take on a life of their own.

So even with a two-person firm, there has to be time carved out to have these honest conversations.

What's the biggest challenge facing RIAs today that you've learned from discussions with advisors?

The conversations I'm having are about quantitative things such as: How do I structure an acquisition or merger so that my business can grow? How do I structure compensation plans? How do I structure performance reviews?

There are also qualitative elements that I'm helping people with, like: "I'm the CEO. I'm the COO. I'm also the top rainmaker bringing in new clients. I'm spreading myself too thin. I'm exhausted. How do I structure things to make sure I'm not working myself to death?"

Yes, it's lonely at the top. To have someone like me who's been there and done that to talk to about this stuff is a great outlet because you can't really talk to people at work about it.

How do you counsel an advisor who's deeply concerned that they're doing too much themselves?

I tell them: It's time to pick a lane [of three]: You can create conditions for success no matter what lane you choose.

For the middle-of-the-road status quo lane, you have to be able to delegate. You have to have proper performance management. You have to align compensation so that people don't feel like they're working for nothing.

But if you pick the lane of being a CEO, you've got to have someone out there bringing in new client assets and servicing your existing clients so that you can spend more time growing the business.

And there are elements you have to put in place to create success through that lane.

The third lane: You can choose to be a rainmaker advisor, in which case you've got to hire professional management and create the conditions for success for them.

These are things about a maturing business that you have to figure out.

Pictured: Andrew Marsh

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