Downturn Like 2008, or Worse, Is Coming: Steph Pomboy

News April 19, 2023 at 03:13 PM
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The impending U.S. economic downturn will be equal to or worse than the 2008 financial crisis, according to MacroMavens founder and economist Stephanie Pomboy, who predicts "major dislocations."

Among other points, she dismissed market optimism over an expected Federal Reserve interest rate cut, explaining that if the central bank did start cutting rates this year, the move would be sparked by "ugly" economic conditions that wouldn't warrant buying stocks.

Pomboy also brushed aside the idea that the downturn would hit only limited areas in the economy.

"You can line up the dominoes and then identify how the first one's going to fall over and what's going to fall over next and next and next," she said Tuesday on the Hedgeye Investing Summit webcast. "It's not surprising that the (market) consensus is offsides and that the Fed once again is offsides."

Tightening and Debt

Pomboy cited the Federal Reserve's aggressive tightening cycle and a debt-laden economy for her outlook.

"Ultimately what it all comes back to is the amount of leverage that's been built up into the system that is going to have to be unwound on the back of all these rate hikes that the Fed has undertaken," she said.

"And what's particularly unique about the current cycle is obviously the speed of magnitude with which the Fed has raised rates on an economy which is now toting twice as much debt as it did going into the global financial crisis," she added.

More bullish analysts cite the strength of consumer and corporate balance sheets, but Pomboy said that's not the case when digging beneath the average.

Household balance sheets may not be as bad as they were going into the great financial crisis, but "the corporate sector is really in rough shape, but it's obscured by, again, the law of averages."

Major Dislocations

"When you take an economy that's got twice as much debt as it did going into the global financial crisis and you raise rates on it in unprecedented fashion you're going to cause major dislocations, and the idea that we are going to have some soft landing or no landing or whatever is just absolutely laughable," said Pomboy.

The downturn won't be contained to only Silicon Valley Bank or regional banks or commercial real estate, she said.

"The idea that it's just the commercial real estate market is a joke," Pomboy said. "The Fed had this free-money bonanza going on for the better part of the decade that followed the global financial crisis and obviously everybody took advantage, and there are people who took more aggressive advantage and that's starting to become made clear.

"The weakest links in the chain break first but that doesn't mean that the rest of the links are intact or going to stay intact," she said. "Give it a minute if you think it's just commercial real estate, just wait a second, because this is clearly going to devolve in a variety of ways."

Default Cycle Coming

The corporate credit market is facing more of a maturity wall in the immediate future, she noted. "If you were a chunk borrower and you were borrowing at 4% a year ago, now you're borrowing at 8.5%, so that's a problem and I don't think anyone's focused on that."

In the consumer arena, "we're already seeing delinquency rates rise there both in credit cards and auto loans," Pomboy added.

Many borrowers can't pay 8.5% interest, she said, explaining that the economy is entering a default cycle. "You're already seeing it in the consumer space, you'll see it in the corporate space, we're seeing it in commercial real estate. And that will tighten credit conditions irrespective of what the Fed does," she said.

As for Fed Chairman Jerome Powell's forecast for a mild recession later this year, she said, "I think the speed with which the data fall apart is going to catch a lot of people by surprise."

First-quarter economic data was inflated by seasonal factors and an unusually warm winter, and "the second quarter fallout is going to be dramatic," she said.

"The Fed, not surprisingly, their forecast sucks and will be completely wrong as it is every single time, and yet they're harnessing their policy obviously to this forecast that's always wrong, so their policy as ever will be wrong again," said Pomboy.

Pivot Wouldn't Be Bullish

The economist said she's puzzled by the idea that a Fed pivot on rate cuts would signal investors to buy when the catalyst for a pivot, especially when the central bank has discussed rates being higher for longer, "is going to be something so ugly that you're not going to want to be long. You're going to really trying to hit the sell button on everything at that point."

Pomboy considers corporate earnings estimates to be "pie in the sky." During the inflation surge, input prices rose much faster than consumer prices, so "behind the curtain corporate margins were getting absolutely pressed to the bone," she noted.

"Nothing I see suggests that we're going to see earnings growth," said Pomboy. She cited an unprecedent inventory buildup, saying, "we, two years in, still haven't really made much progress in drawing that down. That's going to be accomplished by massive discounting."

S&P 500 earnings estimates are inflated by share buybacks, with earnings per share numbers looking much better than the reality, she said. "Half of it is just air," she said.

Gold and gold miners are core positions in Pomboy's portfolio, which also includes long-dated Treasurys and some cash.

"I have no exposure to the equities markets whatsoever except the miners," she said. "When everyone else is nervous I feel great."

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