Glenn Neasham: One year later

We had a juror that came forward the day after I was convicted, he called me actually, and he wanted to talk to my attorney about my case. He thought the verdict was boloney— he didn't use that term, he used something else — and he said a certain juror stated that from their own experience with persons with dementia, it led them to believe that Schuber might not have understood the transaction.

In addition, two jurors stated that that they had made up their minds prior to trial from reading various newspaper articles published about the case. They also said they wanted to send a message to insurance agents and insurance companies to be careful when selling annuities to 83-year-old women.

And there's one thing, too, that I want to mention that isn't brought up much called void ab initio. The Department of Insurance in the state of California determined that Fran wasn't mentally competent December of 2008, 10 months after the transaction. According to a couple of attorneys, the contract should have been voided immediately by the DOI and I never should have gone to trial. Dick Duff spoke with a judge in Colorado who said that if what happened to me had occurred in Colorado, they would have disbarred the prosecutor and maybe even the judge. I don't know how much of that is reality, but those are the types of things I've been told.

But void ab initio means that the contract never existed. And in February of this last year, they gave Fran her money back. They gave her all of her principal plus interest minus the bonus back in cash, so the contract was void ab initio. In that case, the contract should have been voided and the DOI should have dealt with me, not the local prosecutor.

PW: What type of feedback do you hear from the insurance industry these days?

GN: I haven't talked to any insurers but as far as agents, I keep hearing that people just don't get it. They don't understand how anyone could possibly prosecute. It would be like selling a car to somebody and three years later they come back and say, "You shouldn't have sold that car to that person because you found out later on that they had dementia or Alzheimer's." I keep hearing that if this precedent is set, it could have a very big impact on the business world and people selling to seniors.

PW: One of the most common reactions I hear from other agents is fear that something like this might happen to them down the road.

GN: Yeah, and it could be anything. It doesn't have to be insurance, it could be anyone who is doing business with seniors. I'm not a medical doctor. I can't make a medical diagnosis. If I had noticed anything that day she came to see me, it would have been a much different result, I can guarantee you that.

It could have a very significant impact on the insurance industry if this thing doesn't get reversed.

And don't forget, it was three years after I sold the annuity that they came back and arrested me. And yes, [Fran Schuber] had some medical records stating that she possibly had dementia or Alzheimer's, but we didn't know anything about it. And during the trial, my assistant testified that Fran seemed very confident; not at all confused. And even a year–and-a-half later, one of my other assistants who has worked with patients like that had a conversation with her also.

As a matter of fact, during the questionnaire, I asked a lot of questions. One of them was, "How is your health?" and she said she was in good health. If she has said, "I have dementia or Alzheimer's," or if her boyfriend had spoken up, I'm sure we would have had a much different result. We wouldn't have written the annuity and we would have stopped everything right there. But that never happened.

PW: And yet people do continue to take advantage of the elderly every day, which will continue to point the spotlight on those who work with seniors. Outside of ignoring this demographic altogether or extreme steps like requiring medical training for those who sell to seniors, what solutions do you suggest?

GN: I don't know. I've heard people suggest that seniors should have to carry a card with them saying they're competent, which seems ridiculous. But maybe it will have to come to that.

I read something from the district attorney that said maybe we should have a list of questions that we ask people, like, "Who's the president of the United States?" and stuff like that to find out if they're competent.

But again, even if that would have been done, how do we know that something like this still wouldn't have happened? [My arrest] happened three years later. It wasn't something that happened immediately after the sale.

In part two of the interview, Neasham responds to his critics, discusses annuity regulation and Allianz, and talks about what he would do differently if his license is reinstated.

See also:

• The right fit
• Who will be the next Glenn Neasham?
• Annuity sales in the post-Madoff era

Paul Wilson is managing editor or ProducersWEB, a Summit Business Media publication.